McIntosh MC451 Meets Kudos Titan 808
REFERENCE AUDIO – WITHAM ESSEX
BOB’s Review Series - No 60 – McIntosh MC451 Meets Kudos Titan 808
Introduction – Some systems comprise a one box solution of electronics plus a pair of speakers and that’s all you need, there are systems such as the active KEF LS60 that have everything you need to play music in just two speaker boxes, no other electronics needed. Some systems are straight forward to set up, even those systems that are made up of multiple boxes of electronics because often the only decision to make is whether to use RCA or XLR connections. Other systems are rather more complex to set up because they offer the user several choices, mostly to do with owner preferences found deep in the settings menus, and then there is this McIntosh Meets Kudos system which takes user choice to another level altogether. But more of that later.
This system comprising a McIntosh SACD player, two box preamp and dual mono power amps for instance has 28 valves (yes, I counted them). The SACD player has 4, the preamp has 10 and each monobloc has 7. Who in their right mind would think of running a system using 24 valves? McIntosh aficionados, that’s who and if that’s not you then may think again because this is one of the most open, involving and simply outstanding systems I have ever assembled, and you may end up wanting those 28 valves keeping you warm on long cold winter nights.
Lucky owners will have many set up decisions to make and keep making over time because you can run this system using all 28 valves, or just some of them, or none at all, the choice is completely yours. Valve numbers and possible uses aside I haven’t yet got to the option list for connecting these amazing McIntosh goodies to the magnificent Kudos Titan 808 speakers. By my count there are at least 6 ways to feed power into the 808s. Yes, this is a complex system alright although it comprises just 5 boxes of McIntosh electronics, two further boxes for the Innuos Statement streamer and 4 boxes for the pair of speakers, but it could contain many more boxes if you go down the fully active route. Set up gets even more complex should you wish to take advantage of the various ways to use the McIntosh onboard phono stages but for this review I decided not to use a turntable, instead concentrating on CD, SACD and Streaming.
Kudos speakers are designed to be passively or actively driven and they have partnered with at least three or four amplifier manufacturers who have designed active crossovers and amplifiers solely for the purpose of driving active Kudos speakers. As we don’t sell those brands, I decided to drive them with something slightly left field from McIntosh. Not in a traditional bi-amp setup and not fully active but a mix of the two, read on to find out how I achieved this in a way that I believe only this system can do.
System Components used in this Review:
For reasons of practicability, I didn’t review any of these components at home as I would normally do, instead I set them up in our main demo room (see image attached) and listened to it over several days. The system comprised:
Streamer: Innuos Statement (Next Gen Version) 2TB - £16,750
SACD Player: McIntosh MCD 12000 with Internal DAC - £13,995
Preamp: McIntosh two-box C12000 - £18,990
Power Amps: McIntosh MC451 Twin Power Monoblocs - £32,990 per pair
Speakers: Kudos Titan 808 - £30,000
Subs: Simply not needed for normal listening conditions
Cables: AudioQuest Interconnects and Jorma Speaker Cables
Setting Up – This is a system big on the use of technology and visual impact and owners will certainly have lots to play with on those long winter afternoons when gardening and car washing are not playing on your mind and vying for attention. Complex, big and heavy this system needs some carefully thought-out racking to accommodate all the components. Then we must consider how we want to run all the McIntosh boxes and set them up for best results with the Kudos speakers.
I’ve set out below some of the easier to describe ways this system can communicate with itself but before going into too much detail it’s worth describing the setup options available to potential owners. So here we go, I hope you can keep up.
- The MCD 12000 SACD player can be used with either valve or solid-state output and via RCA or XLR outputs. It can be used as a player with its onboard DAC or as a transport into an outboard DAC. It can also act as a DAC for other connected devices such as streamers. It has 7 digital inputs including USB.
- The C12000 preamp can also be used with either valve or solid-state output and via RCA or XLR connections. The two phono inputs can be configured for MM or MC operation. You can use all the valves, or none, it’s your choice. 4 of the 10 valves are related to the phono stage outputs only.
- The MA451 Monoblocs can be used in three ways, as a valve only amplifier, as a solid-state only amplifier or a combination of valve and a solid-state amplifier with the valves driving the midrange and tweeters and the solid-state amp driving the bass speakers in a traditional bi-wired or bi-amped system. This last option that McIntosh refer to as ‘composite’ is how they are mostly designed to be used in a done slightly differently traditional bi-wired system.
- The Kudos Titan 808 can be used in at least 5 different ways:
- Single wired passive mode using the supplied links to connect the bass box to the mid/tweeter box. Using the Kudos designed onboard crossover.
- Bi-wired passive mode using two sets of speaker cables from a suitable equipped stereo amplifier or a pair of monobloc amps to feed both lower and upper cabinets, discarding the supplied link cables.
- Active Bi-amped system using bespoke external crossovers and amplifiers that have been specifically designed in partnership with Kudos for this purpose.
- As above but tri-amped rather than bi-amped.
- And now the solution I have used for this review where a mix of passive bi-wiring and active drive is possible using both the Kudos onboard crossovers and the crossovers built into the MC451s. I’ll describe how this works a little later but for now it’s worth knowing that there are no other amplifiers that I know of that can be connected in this way to the Titan 808s. Please don’t try this at home with any other amplifier, unless of course you have a pair of McIntosh MC901 monoblocs to hand (see footnote below).
For this review I used the MCD12000 SACD player and the C12000 Preamp in valve output mode, the MC451 monoblocs in valve and solid-state output mode (they call it Mono on the 451 and composite on the 901, no idea why) and I used the Titan 808s as option 4.5 above. The onboard DAC in the MCD 12000 was always used and all interconnects were XLR.
The Technical Bit – These are some of the more pertinent technical bits worth thinking about if you are going to live with this McIntosh and Kudos system.
McIntosh MCD12000 SACD Player – McIntosh have been designing and building SACD players for many years and it’s good to see a manufacturer still content to meet the needs of those of us for whom CD and SACD is still a daily comfort. However, McIntosh are more inclined to refer to the MCD12000 as a high-end DAC that can also play CD and SACD as it also has 7 digital inputs including USB. Adding further to user flexibility it has a both a valve and a solid-state output on RCA and Balanced XLR. Its comprehensive on-board DAC uses twin ESS Sabre 9038 Pro 32 bit 8 channel DACs, one is used for each channel. I’m very familiar with the 9038 Pro as a pair are also used in my Gryphon Ethos CD player. I used this onboard DAC when streaming from the Innuos Statement in preference to using an outboard DAC. The MCD12000 uses a 12AT7 and a 12AX7A valve for each channels output stage. It has 4 outputs in total with one balanced XLR and one unbalanced RCA for both the valve and the solid-state option. Finally, it is also a Roon capable device via its DAC input and I used Roon and Qobuz for all streaming listening.
McIntosh C12000 Preamp – This is a two-box unit and unusually for McIntosh it doesn’t contain a DAC and even more unusually there isn’t an option to fit one. The lower box, the controller, contains the power supply which is linked to the upper preamplifier box via twin umbilical connectors. It offers both solid state and valve outputs and has 12 inputs including 6 on balanced XLR, 4 on RCA and 2 RCAs for turntable connection using its inbuilt phono stages. Six of the 10 valves in this preamp are dedicated to the output stage whilst the other 4 are used to drive the phono stages. Each of the two phono inputs can be configured for MM or MC use. It also has a high-quality headphone output. It has 4 outputs, one balanced valve output on XLR, one solid state output on XLR, one fixed unbalanced output on RCA and one programmable output on RCA which all add to user choice and preference. It also has an AV bypass for home cinema use. Together the two boxes weigh 23.6kg
McIntosh MC451 Monoblocs – These monoblocs, like their bigger and more powerful sister MC901 are designed to offer a unique approach to bi-wiring speakers. They do this by having both a 150w valve amplifier and a 300w solid-state amplifier in each monobloc, twin power in McIntosh jargon. Yes, it really is a monobloc with two separate power amplifiers on board, not a stereo amp configured for single channel output. As with the other McIntosh devices used in this review it has several user selectable methods of connection, it can be used solely as a valve amplifier to single wire a pair of speakers or used solely as a solid-state amplifier in the same way. It can if you wish power two sets of speakers, one driven by the valves and one with the solid-state amps. But its real raison d’etre is to bi-wire or bi-amp a pair of speakers using the valve amp to power the mid and upper frequency drivers and the solid-state amp to drive the bass units. To enable this method of connection the MC451 has an inbuilt crossover that should be set to match the point that your chosen speakers crossover from the bass to the midrange drivers so you will need to know this crossover point from your speaker manufacturer. This is where Dave from Kudos was a great help because Kudos don’t appear to publish this crossover point so I asked them for feedback on the best way to connect the Kudos 808s to the McIntosh 451s and what settings to use. When setting the crossover point on the MC451 it should be noted that the solid-state amplifier will only provide signal up to this crossover point leaving all higher frequencies to be supplied by the valve amp. So, if you set the crossover point to say 300Hz the solid-state amp will send information up to this point to the bass drivers and the valve amp will send all frequencies above this to the mid and treble drivers. Its important to understand this because if your speaker crosses over at a higher or lower point the MC451 will be sending signals to drivers not specifically designed to cater for them.
Each MC451 monobloc contains 7 valves, 4 KT88 output valves, two 12AT7 and one 12AX7A signal valves. Gain levels for the valve amplifier are useable adjustable from -6dB to +3dB. If you are not using the amplifier in this way, then a direct feed can be sent to each amp which bypasses the internal crossover. Of course, each MC451 has a large blue McIntosh meter on the front panel in traditional McIntosh house style. In this case each meter has two displays, one for the valve and one for the solid-state amp outputs. These are big amps measuring 454mm x 300mm x 546mm (WHD) and weighing in at 60.3Kg each, but they look small next to the MC901s.
Dave from Kudos called me two or three times with suggested crossover points for connection to their Titan 808s and we started at 200Hz but eventually settled at something around 100 to 120Hz as being the most appropriate. There is a reason for this, and I’ve attempted to explain it below.
By the way if you are inquisitive enough to wonder how McIntosh arrive at product numbering the first two numbers, in this case 45, are the power output x10 in watts and the third number is the number of channels involved, in this case 1. So, this is a 450w single channel amplifier.
Kudos Titan 808 Speakers – When assembled and viewed from the front it appears that this is a single box speaker but move to the side and you can immediately see that each speaker is in fact a two-box design. The lower box housing the bass drivers and the top box housing the mid and upper range drivers. The top box is not physically fixed to the bottom box, rather it sits on three adjustable large spikes and cups to offer a mechanical connection whilst maintaining a form of isolation as far as is practical. Under normal single wiring passive connection, the bottom and top boxes are linked together with a supplied pair of high-quality link cables. Like virtually all passive speakers the 808s have onboard crossovers and like many speakers today they can be single or bi-wired or single or bi-amped in passive mode. Unlike most other speakers however they can also be turned into active speakers by the provision of suitably designed external power amps and with specifically designed external crossovers bypassing the onboard crossovers. The rear panel of the 808s and indeed all other Kudos Titan speakers have many different sets of rear connections to cater for bi or even tri amping. For this purpose, Kudos have collaborated with Linn, Naim, Devialet and Exposure to provide suitable amplification and external crossovers bespoke to each of their Titan speakers.
It may look like the 808s have a single bass driver in the lower cabinet but there is actually a pair of them in a back-to-back isobaric bass reflex arrangement, the one you see and the other residing inside the cabinet. This is why Kudos refer to this as a 2.5 way speaker. All drivers are manufactured to Kudos specification by SEAS. Sensitivity is quoted at 91dB. The tweeter is a 29mm fabric dome, the mid driver is a 220mm Nextel coated paper cone and the twin bass drivers are 220mm hard coated paper cones. Each speaker measures 1168mm x 348mm x 404mm (HWD) excluding the plinth and weigh 75Kg.
Our set of 808s are finished in their liquid amber veneers but many other finishes are available.
Having discussed the best crossover point with Kudos I connected the MC451 solid-state amp to the passive input on the bass cabinet and valve amp to the passive input on the upper cabinet, setting aside the supplied link cables. I set the crossover point on the 451s at 200Hz and they sounded just great. But Dave called me back and suggested that as the 451s have a built-in crossover of their own it would be worth trying to connect the solid-state amp to the lower bass cabinet using the active rather than the passive inputs because this then excludes the 808s onboard crossovers from having any influence. He suggested lowering the 451 crossovers to between 100 and 120Hz for this purpose and this is how I listened for the remainder of the review, partly passive and partly active! Still with me? Just hope I got it all right.
NOTE: please don’t try this passive/active setup at home with any other type of amplifier, except perhaps the McIntosh 901 because normal amps don’t have onboard crossovers and connecting them in this way will likely damage the speaker and the connected amps. Only amps from those partnered companies mentioned above that have designed specific external crossovers should be connected to the active inputs.
Performance – With all the technical and user adjustability issues dealt with how did the system sound once I had set it up and let it warm up for a while?
Listening mostly to SACD with all McIntosh devices running in valve output mode first out of my box of 50 or so SACDs was Elton John’s Captain Fantastic, not everyone’s first choice I’m sure but just listening to the first track when the vocals come in and a 3D holographic image starts to build in front of you is quite a remarkable experience. I can’t remember having ever experienced such a deep and inviting stereo image from any system before, especially just a couple of minutes in.
Recently I purchased a high definition XRCD2 of the Eagles ‘Hell Freezes Over’, these CD discs are mastered and manufactured by JVC in Japan. They are not cheap, but the sound quality is well worth the £45 asking price, not too dissimilar to the price of good quality vinyl these days. Listening to this CD on this system is a memorable experience with great dynamics, exceptional clarity and deep bass, so good I listened to the entire CD which runs to almost 75 minutes. As with the EJ SACD the imaging was so precise the band were more in the room with me than I recall before. Next up on the SACD front was Peter Frampton’s ‘Frampton Comes Alive’ and that well played track ‘Do You Feel Like We Do’, you know the one, it features the voice box. It’s such a shame that SACD in the UK is so hard to find without paying for expensive Japanese imports because this system took me right back to my youth when this track played and although I never got to see him live this was surely the next best thing.
Billie Jean from Michael Jackson’s ‘Thriller’ is always a great track to play, it has detail, bass depth, harmony and a zest for life and the SACD played on this system had all those benefits and more, it was everything you always remember of this track but taken to another level. On another level again was Elton John’s album from 1971 (surely the best year for music ever) and this SACD master copy from 2004 was almost heart breaking in vocal content back when Elton’s voice was fresh and Bernie Taupin’s lyrics were also at their very best. So many good tracks on this album, Tiny Dancer, Levon, Indian Sunset and more. This McIntosh and Kudos system just takes you back in time to when Elton and Bernie were at their peak, I was suitable enthralled.
I played many CD and SACD discs and listened to lots of streamed music via Qobuz and the Innuos Statement, on this system and was never disappointed.
I also had to hand the 2009 40th anniversary CD/DVD Audio disc of King Crimson’s ‘In The Court Of The Crimson King’ hoping that the MCD12000 might just play DVD Audio (remember them?) but alas it didn’t so I played the plain red book CD version instead that came in the same box. The opening to track 3 ‘Epitaph’ has rolling drums coming in that sound like approaching thunder just before the much more laid back vocals start and once again this system showed just what we can miss out on if we don’t build systems with symbiosis of equipment and cabling in mind. Clarity, soundstage, definition and 3D imaging all adding to the most enjoyable listening session and here I have to quote from the lyrics of this classic album from 1969 ‘Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules’. This system certainly sets the rules, but it also lets you play with how it writes those rules, all to great effect and it will become a good not deadly friend in the process.
Going over to streaming via the Innuos Statement and the USB input on the MCD12000 I listened to many tracks from some of my Roon playlists and everyone of them sounded just as I remember them but mostly with just that bit more depth and detail. So good are these streaming sources getting that I really did struggle to tell the difference between CD and streaming. I guess using the same DAC helps to deliver a similar sound signature but if anything, streaming was a warmer, deeper and more inviting sound, but it’s closer than you would think with some SACD sounding better than others.
Back to SACD for a final listen before completing my review but not my listening session I chose an album from Era called The Mass. I’ve listened to this album and others from Era too many times to count but when track 4 ‘Don’t You Forget’ started I was deeply impressed once again by the way this system convinces your brain that there must be a centre speaker hidden away somewhere, it was simply stunning.
Conclusion – If you want the ultimate of user interaction then this system will certainly tick all the right boxes. If you have the rack space and space to accommodate the big Titans with sufficient space around them then this system that will blow your socks off. It may impress your friends with the light show and will definitely impress them with the sound quality, few will have experienced a system like this at home, or anywhere else for that matter. Most importantly it will impress you with every piece of music you ask it to play and play you will, long into the night. Goodbye to all those other domestic chores and hello much more music. Track down some SACDs, dig out all those CDs you have in the loft and start enjoying them all over again. I’m mightily impressed, it’s not an inexpensive system by any measure but you will need to spend considerably more on a system to better this one.
At around £130,000 including cables this system is nowhere near the most expensive system we can assemble in our main demo room where we could spend that just on speakers but when you hear how this McIntosh/Kudos system performs you will wonder why anyone would want to spend more. It stunned me with its dynamics and vocal sound staging, especially when playing SACD, never has a central image been so apparent from a two-channel system.
Footnote 901s – OK so I couldn’t resist swapping the Mc451s for the bigger MC901s, well they were just sitting there daring me to fire them up. This upped the valve count from 28 to 42 for the complete system (the 901s have double the valve count of the 451s and double the power output) and of course upped the floor space needed to accommodate the bigger amps, the 901s really are monsters, weighing in at 86.3Kg each. The 901s also increases the system price by around £13,000, not bad when you see the real estate involved. Making sure I used the composite XLR connection on the rear panel to ensure the 901s were using both valve and solid-state outputs I was ready to go. How did it sound? Initially a bit brighter than the 451s but those 8 KT88 valves in each monobloc take some time to warm up and when they did so did the sound. They are clearly more powerful amps than the 451s but in this system I don’t think the benefit was as great as I thought it might be. Sure, there was even more power and dynamics, but the sound did remain brighter than I had expected even when the valves were up to temperature. But many of those older CDs and SACDs were brighter sounding than much of todays recorded music and when I changed back to streaming the sound mellowed just enough to make it more enjoyable. Listen to the tile track on ‘Damn Sure Blue’ by Kate Campbell and you will hear her beautiful vocals and the backing rhythm of this album to full effect. If you have the space and cash to go for the 901s you will end up with a truly great system but if you want to save some money and floor space, then choosing the 451s will leave you wanting for nothing.
I would recommend that McIntosh and Kudos send someone here ASAP to hear just how good their equipment is sounding together in this system, they probably won’t be surprised but I think they will be impressed.
Thanks for taking the time to read this review, I hope you enjoyed reading about this unusual system and that I made sense.
Bob – Team Reference Audio – April 2023